Subject 13

Oh man, I find Sam Weiss super interesting. If we don't get more about Peter, I hope we at least get more about him.

...And does that book thing make you feel like there's no hope for Peter? You're kind of a doom-sayer when it comes to his future.

I hate Sam Weiss but even he is more interesting to me right now than Olivia's identity crisis.

Well I've already been terrified since the season two finale that Peter will die in the end. And then they go and put that in. PLEASE STOP WITH THE REFERENCES TO PETER'S IMPENDING DOOM, SHOW. STOP. STOP. STOP. I mean, that is NOT a conincidence. That was handpicked and added in to make me crap myself. At this point it wont even be sad though, because by the time we get to the finale everyone will have forgotten he even fucking exists anyway.

Oh wow yes, I thought Chandler was amazing, too. He broke my heart.

The one major thing that pissed me off in this episode? Walter was more upset about a girl he experiments on being hit by her stepfather, than he was about his son trying to drown himself in the bottom of a lake and his wife risking her life to save him.

Larissa wrote:The one major thing that pissed me off in this episode? Walter was more upset about a girl he experiments on being hit by her stepfather, than he was about his son trying to drown himself in the bottom of a lake and his wife risking her life to save him.

YEAH. UM. WHAT THE HELL.

I still don't get how Peter's attempted suicide WASN'T TALKED ABOUT IN THE EPISODE. And Walter didn't even speak to his son!

Holy fuck, about the book. Petah's gonna die. I'm actually pleased. I DON'T WANT HIM TO GO ON LIVING AFTER FRINGE HAS ENDED.
I'll wonder about his life :')

I agree with Leressa, the fact they just forgot Peter (I can't get over his amazeballsness) tried to drown himself was ridiculous.

One thing which made me laugh was the second my mum saw Olivia (she doesn't even like Fringe, she tries to talk all through it) she said "She's always been a moody cow, hasn't she?" XD

I was really pissed about the continuity errors. Olivia was far too old, there was a lack of Bell and the writers seem to think Peter was 17 when Elizabeth killed herself. I did the math for that fic about the phone call. He'd have been 21 at least.

I kept expecting there to be a heart-to-heart moment between Walter and Peter, and it... it never came. Nothing about the suicide attempt. Nothing!

It really feels like they're rewriting our characters. Like someone new came in with a red marker and just re-wrote all the characters. They're monsters. No one is behaving as they were foreshadowed to behave.

Walter is supposed to be fucking evil, goddammit.

Holy fuck, about the book. Petah's gonna die. I'm actually pleased. I DON'T WANT HIM TO GO ON LIVING AFTER FRINGE HAS ENDED.
I'll wonder about his life :')

Excuse you, there'll be no dead Peter on my watch. I CANNOT STAND THIS FORESHADOWING. MY BABY. WHY AREN'T YOU ALLOWED TO JUST BE HAPPY, YOU POOR, ABUSED CHILD?

One thing which made me laugh was the second my mum saw Olivia (she doesn't even like Fringe, she tries to talk all through it) she said "She's always been a moody cow, hasn't she?" XD

Lol, yup. It's a surprise Altlivia is even possible. But, for the record, if she was also dealing with the stepfather then MAD props to her. She copes very well with her life.

I was really pissed about the continuity errors. Olivia was far too old, there was a lack of Bell and the writers seem to think Peter was 17 when Elizabeth killed herself. I did the math for that fic about the phone call. He'd have been 21 at least.

Yeah, I second this. As much as I love that they have decided he was SO young for that event (because wow, angst overload, and the poor darling. I can't even imagine losing my mother at 17), but it just didn't sound like it added up. 21 does sound better. What are they doing at the moment?

I kept expecting there to be a heart-to-heart moment between Walter and Peter, and it... it never came. Nothing about the suicide attempt. Nothing!

Also, imo this makes him look like a gigantic asshole. His son just tried to kill himself. Jesus fucking christ take a break from your work for a minute and HELP YOUR BOY. TO HIS FACE.

Walter is supposed to be fucking evil, goddammit.

I have to admit I am quite disappointed that Walter's character has been made so, so sympathetic. John Noble doesn't need to to make him likable. And I like that our characters have serious flaws and that one of Walter's elements back in season one was that you were never quite sure if you could trust him or how involved he really was. I need a villain in this show, and now they've killed that aspect of Walter as well. Like we've forgotten he used to hook Peter up to car batteries and shock him. Bs. I'm hoping there's more to come where we get proof of just how much of a cunt Walter was to Peter all the way up until St Claires, because Peter remembers THAT very vividly.

monnie44 wrote:
I have to admit I am quite disappointed that Walter's character has been made so, so sympathetic. John Noble doesn't need to to make him likable. And I like that our characters have serious flaws and that one of Walter's elements back in season one was that you were never quite sure if you could trust him or how involved he really was. I need a villain in this show, and now they've killed that aspect of Walter as well. Like we've forgotten he used to hook Peter up to car batteries and shock him. Bs. I'm hoping there's more to come where we get proof of just how much of a cunt Walter was to Peter all the way up until St Claires, because Peter remembers THAT very vividly.

Yes! I second the villain thing (as we've discussed), but hooooo boy Peter did not even want to be in the same room as Walter in the first episode. All Subject 13 showed us of this evil former Walter, was that maybe he was too good at being a dad. Like, WTF? This man experimented on children. Even as recent as Jacksonville there were shades of Walter being soulless, and this episode was just re-writing characters.

Sorry this was so disjointed. I'm just angry!

I know what you mean. They can't set up this heartless child abuser who fucks up kids lives, and then make him nice and likable when they're showing his abuse. They're too concerned, in my opinion, with people hating Walter; they're worried if they show him like that that people will hate present day Walter and as the most loved character, it would be detrimental for the show.

I think the only time they ever want Walter to appear as a bad guy is when he's hurt Olivia, like in Bad Dreams where everyone turned on him because he'd experimented on her. If that's going to make people angry at him, why didn't IWWMMJ when we found out he experimented on his own son?

Because what happens to Peter doesn't seem to matter. He's Walter's son, a bit of experimenting on your kid can do no harm. As long as you don't hit them, that's fine.
I don't get how everyone hates Olivia's stepfather for hitting her, yet Walter's hooked his own son up to car batteries and experimented on him probably regularly and people love him.

So I just finished the episode.

I do have to agree that little Peter was unbelievable. Really. I thought he was awesome. And I really liked the girl who played Olivia too. I thought they both were amazing.

And IMO I thought it was a good episode. But I do agree that it would have been better in season two rather than now.

And since I still like Olivia, (sorry xD) I didn't really mind the whole story with her and her stepfather and everything about the Cortexiphan. And I teared up a little when she was talking to Watlernate about her dad and she was crying

But I teared too when Peter was saying he wasn't crazy to Elizabeth D: That was, I think, my favorite scene. Either that, or the very beginning.

Because of my sick, twisted mind, the opening scene will be my favourite :')

There's no need to apologise for liking Olivia, Kayla xD I'd never apologise for loving Peter

But I teared too when Peter was saying he wasn't crazy to Elizabeth D: That was, I think, my favorite scene. Either that, or the very beginning.

Oh how that egg scene was tragic. I so agree. I feel so, so bad for him.

I popped into Fringe forum for a few minutes the other day. And in the Peter forum someone had started a threat about how "do we HONESTLY think Peter's life was THAT BAD?" in response to Subject 13.
And they went on to argue that, unlike Olivia, he wasn't abused. And in comparison his life wasn't even hard.

I sorta want to off myself now.

And I was very pissed my account is locked out.

1. First question, MAIN question: Since when is psychological abuse any less serious than physical abuse? Someone, please tell me. Because since this is their argument then I suppose all those children who have grown up in families where they have been torn down by their parents, screamed at, victims of alcoholic parents who never actually touched them, and so on and so forth ... they all need to shut their mouths and stop whining.
2. Since when did this episode prove that Peter wasn't physically abused as well? He used to be electrocuted by his own father. He said this. It is a fact.
3. Abandonment of two parents when under the age of 18. This isn't traumatic at all.
4. Mother committing suicide. When he was 17 years of age. When he didn't have a father.
5. Heavily hinted at alcoholic mother while she was still alive, and his sole carer from age 13 onwards. I refuse to believe that trait didn't get worse when Walter left. Peter also referred to her in "Over There Part 1" as weaker than the other Elizabeth, so I would guess I am correct.
6. Parental neglect is not also a form of abuse? Since when? We know for a fact that Walter used to spend all his time at work and never with Peter, because Peter outright stated this.

The boy has been abused by his parents in every other way THAN hitting, and that itself isn't even really true because PETER WAS STRAPPED TO CAR BATTERIES AND SHOCKED BY HIS FATHER AS WELL.

Tell me, please, for my sanity ... are they all just one single troll who has signed up for 500 accounts in different Fringe forums?
Please?

How much hate can you have for a character than you even rebuke and belittle the idea of their childhood abuse?
I would never say that about Olivia. I honestly do not understand how someone can do that.

Exactly! How can anyone even be that blind that they'll ignore that?
Peter got torn away from his world, his family, and pretty much lost the fundamental years of his life. He never belonged anywhere which is why he travelled, which got him involved with shady people and screwed his life up even more. Yes. Such a simple, nice life that is.

I would never say that about Olivia.

I'm getitng so sick of how Olivia fans spew shit about Peter everywhere. We keep our opinions about Olivia away from her fans (with the exception of Kayla xD), it's just called being polite. It's them people who've split this fandom :/

Ah yes, the "Peter's life was a cake walk compared to poor Olivia" thread. RandyO pissed me off, but I tried to be civil.

Can't people agree that both of them had the suck growing up? This is supposed to be why they "get" each other. Peter wants somewhere to belong and Olivia want to be his home. This is what I personally enjoy. Two broken people that care for one another. It isn't perfect and both of them Fuck up! But I'm tired of those that say Peter is a jackass to Olivia, or she had it so hard while he lived like a prince...

Olivia is who she is because her life was difficult. But so is Peter. Both have had enormous life altering, fucked up, heart wrenching trials to endure. Out of both of them, I'm more surprised that Peter hasn't ended up staring down the barrel of a .45 on more than one occasion...

Also, once again I visited Fringebloggers to find someone complaining of the possibility of Olivia "being missing" from a few episodes if Bell takes over her body...

WTF... Anna Torv will still be there.

Unlike what us Peter fans that endured his reduced screen time got...

It sucks because I love both characters, but once again the LivNazis are pissing me off...

Aparently abuse is solely a physical phenomenom.

And, on top of that, Peter's physical abuse doesn't count!

Ah yes, the "Peter's life was a cake walk compared to poor Olivia" thread. RandyO pissed me off, but I tried to be civil.

I couldn't even repllllly. I feel like a bad Peter fan, and it's not even my fault.

Can't people agree that both of them had the suck growing up?

No. Everything has to be a competition to show how much better Olivia is than Peter. No exceptions. Even her abuse means more.

The show has turned her into such a victim this season. Lesson number one in the writing class I just finished: never make your character a victim. Due to the fact they become unlikable. Which is what has happened to Olivia. The more they make her a victim to all these Horrible Circumstances that she has No Control Over but is Never At Fault Of ... the less I care for her. The more I care for Peter, too, because while he is being shat on just as much, he has to suck it up and deal. (Mainly because no one seems to care about him, but I digress)

But I'm tired of those that say Peter is a jackass to Olivia, or she had it so hard while he lived like a prince...

Looool. This always makes me laugh. What, pray tell, was he supposed to be doing in his brand new relationship with Olivia (because, for all intents and purposes, to him she WAS our Olivia)? ... Was Peter supposed to have been miserable during this time? How would that have even worked?? LOL. I DON'T GET IT?

Out of both of them, I'm more surprised that Peter hasn't ended up staring down the barrel of a .45 on more than one occasion...

If they cared for continuity with his character, I would argue we should be quite worried right now that he doesn't consider this sort of ending himself. Since he tried to commit suicide at age seven. And has been given no psychological help for that. And has, since then, especially in the past few months, has his world torn out beneath him.

If this show cared about Peter's character and the continuity of his character, he should be on suicide watch right. now.

They've just bloody told us in this episode that he's tried it before.

... Seriously - what are you doing, Fringe?
Why were we even GIVEN that scene?

Also, once again I visited Fringebloggers to find someone complaining of the possibility of Olivia "being missing" from a few episodes if Bell takes over her body...

Just saw the same thing on TWoP. I was inclined to answer in bolded caps "REALLY?" and leave it at that, but I would rather not be banned by that place as well.

monnie44 wrote:Aparently abuse is solely a physical phenomenom.

And, on top of that, Peter's physical abuse doesn't count!

Psychological abuse can be worse than physical abuse, I've found. Physical abuse is definitely awful and I'm not trying to say it's not in any way, but psychological abuse can stick and mess you up far worse, IMO. And you're right, he had car batteries attached to him as a little boy! No one seems to remember that.

Ah yes, the "Peter's life was a cake walk compared to poor Olivia" thread. RandyO pissed me off, but I tried to be civil.

I couldn't even repllllly. I feel like a bad Peter fan, and it's not even my fault. [/quote]
How is FF? Can you get on yet?

Can't people agree that both of them had the suck growing up?

No. Everything has to be a competition to show how much better Olivia is than Peter. No exceptions. Even her abuse means more. [/quote]
The FT poll, about who is more damaged - it's turning it into a competition, and when we defend Peter, what's the response? "IT'S NOT A COMPETITION, OLIVIA WINS DON'T ARGUE." -_-

The show has turned her into such a victim this season. Lesson number one in the writing class I just finished: never make your character a victim. Due to the fact they become unlikable. Which is what has happened to Olivia. The more they make her a victim to all these Horrible Circumstances that she has No Control Over but is Never At Fault Of ... the less I care for her. The more I care for Peter, too, because while he is being shat on just as much, he has to suck it up and deal. (Mainly because no one seems to care about him, but I digress)

Olivia was fine in season one. She was put in crappy circumstances and it was rare she complained. Now all she does is moan. I'm sorry, but when you're working with a guy who has to decide the fate of 14 billion people, how the hell can you moan about coffee?!

But I'm tired of those that say Peter is a jackass to Olivia, or she had it so hard while he lived like a prince...

Looool. This always makes me laugh. What, pray tell, was he supposed to be doing in his brand new relationship with Olivia (because, for all intents and purposes, to him she WAS our Olivia)? ... Was Peter supposed to have been miserable during this time? How would that have even worked?? LOL. I DON'T GET IT? [/quote]
He thought he was with her! This woman he's spent two, almost three years wanting to be with. He did the best he could for her!

Out of both of them, I'm more surprised that Peter hasn't ended up staring down the barrel of a .45 on more than one occasion...

If they cared for continuity with his character, I would argue we should be quite worried right now that he doesn't consider this sort of ending himself. Since he tried to commit suicide at age seven. And has been given no psychological help for that. And has, since then, especially in the past few months, has his world torn out beneath him. [/quote]
Like we're saying on Twitter, he's gotten really reckless, with the jumping off of buildings and chasing people across roofs (I'm sure it should be "rooves". I don't know. Red squiggly line tells me it's not a word xD ) but I can't see them fleshing it out any more than that

If this show cared about Peter's character and the continuity of his character, he should be on suicide watch right. now.

They've just bloody told us in this episode that he's tried it before.

... Seriously - what are you doing, Fringe?
Why were we even GIVEN that scene?

I'd love to see that. Not only would it satisfy my sick whumpy needs, but it would show that he's actually not okay, despite how much he likes to pretend.

Also, once again I visited Fringebloggers to find someone complaining of the possibility of Olivia "being missing" from a few episodes if Bell takes over her body...

Just saw the same thing on TWoP. I was inclined to answer in bolded caps "REALLY?" and leave it at that, but I would rather not be banned by that place as well.[/quote]
WHAT!? At least Anna is IN the episode. What about Peter fans who got stuck with Olivia's incredibly OOC imagined Peter for half of the season?

And you're right, he had car batteries attached to him as a little boy! No one seems to remember that.

I had one poster arguing with me over this matter in a forum a few weeks ago saying they're sure Walter did it for a reason! Bitch you don't attach car batteries to your child - period. It's never okay, no matter what the justification. What in the hell. Anything, anything to avoid admitting that Walter isn't a kind hearted character who has never done anything really wrong.

How is FF? Can you get on yet?

Haven't tried in weeks but lemme check.
Nope.

The FT poll, about who is more damaged - it's turning it into a competition, and when we defend Peter, what's the response? "IT'S NOT A COMPETITION, OLIVIA WINS DON'T ARGUE." -_-

LOL THAT POLL. I wanted to request they put another poll immediately after it asking who their favourite character was - I imagine the results may have been freakishly similar, for some reason. It was a popularity contest - no one who answered that pole was actually considering both sides - thus, it was pointless and in no way indicative of the truth, just who had more fans.

Like we're saying on Twitter, he's gotten really reckless, with the jumping off of buildings and chasing people across roofs (I'm sure it should be "rooves". I don't know. Red squiggly line tells me it's not a word xD ) but I can't see them fleshing it out any more than that

Isn't English cool? It's roofs. Our language ...
I wish they'd give this more focus. One Walter comment a few episodes ago isn't really enough. I wish we'd seen the ending of that scene where he jumped LIKE THREE STORIES DOWN. I mean seriously - that was not a safe decision and even for Peter it was not normal. Boy needs help, stat. Because I'm worried what that's saying about this state of mind - almost as though he no longer cares if he lives or dies. He's giving up.

WHAT!? At least Anna is IN the episode. What about Peter fans who got stuck with Olivia's incredibly OOC imagined Peter for half of the season?

No we don't count, Dani. We're not as important as Olivia fans and shouldn't have the same needs in terms of wanted to see our favourite character each week.

monnie44 wrote:LOL THAT POLL. I wanted to request they put another poll immediately after it asking who their favourite character was - I imagine the results may have been freakishly similar, for some reason. It was a popularity contest - no one who answered that pole was actually considering both sides - thus, it was pointless and in no way indicative of the truth, just who had more fans.

That's why that poll pissed me off, they either didn't read Peter's section at all or they just assumed that because Peter never shows it, it obviously never happened -.-

Danielle wrote:Like we're saying on Twitter, he's gotten really reckless, with the jumping off of buildings and chasing people across roofs

Let's not forget that he ran across a main road and nearly got himself hit by a car, too :/ I think he's just slowly losing control, or I hope so xD